February 21: REMS vs DEXA; FRAX; AlgaeCal

February 21, 2024


Session Notes

During the meeting, Dr. Doug discussed the comparison of REMS and DEXA scans. He emphasized the importance of comparing both scans for a comprehensive understanding of bone health.

Dr. Doug also discussed the FRAX tool, which assesses fracture risk based on DEXA results and other risk factors. He demonstrated how to use FRAX by inputting hypothetical data, showing how the risk percentages change with different T-scores.

As for supplements, Dr. Doug spoke about AlgaeCal. Their product, without strontium, showed an improvement in bone mineral density (BMD). Dr. Doug recommends AlgaeCal Plus and their Complete product as part of a supplement regimen for bone health. He also mentioned a multi-mineral supplement from Claire Labs and briefly discussed the benefits of BEAM minerals, particularly for cellular function and detoxification.

Next week's meeting will feature guest speaker Ashley, who will discuss the use of continuous glucose monitors (CGM) and their role in understanding carbohydrate restriction for metabolic health.



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Doug Lucas: some supplement stuff. That was the biggest kind of


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Doug Lucas: inter zoom communication through the slack channel for those of you that are using it. So I want to talk about that. But we had. Let's see, is Kim here.


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Doug Lucas: Kimakima. Gimme Kim Kim Kim Kim


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Kim Bishop: Nope, I don't know if I'm the right Kim, though.


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Doug Lucas: We got yeah Kim Kim Albertson. Any relation to the grocery chain? Kim.


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Kim Bishop: No, I'm I'm I'm Kim Bishop. So oh, Hi, Kim, yeah, we have we have another Kim, too.


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Shelly’s iPad: Hmm!


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Doug Lucas: Sorry, Kim Albertson. Any relation to the the grocery chain?


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Kim Albertson: I am not natural. The Empire of Griffiths.


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Doug Lucas: So Kim recently got a rems. Where did you get your remstone Kim?


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Kim Albertson: Up at Wayne, New Jersey, at a place called Xbody.


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Yeah. Who's the doc that's there now.


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Kim Albertson: I did not get to see her. She's not in that day. Let me look at my message real quick.


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Doug Lucas: Well, if you can find it, that'd be great cause I believe I know her, but I can't think of her name off the head. So anyway, I have Kim's


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Doug Lucas: Rems and her Dexa. And she did them like within a couple of days of each other. Right? Yeah. So I think let's start there because that's gonna be a really great exercise in looking at both of these scans, and then we'll talk about supplements and actually have some.


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Doug Lucas: We've been updating our supplement list with some new content, too.


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Doug Lucas: So let me grab


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Doug Lucas: Marvellen. Sorry I had it pulled up.


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Doug Lucas: I'm writing this script for


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Doug Lucas:  There we go.


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Doug Lucas: I'm writing this script for a video on Friday, on estrogen and breast cancer. And my desktop is filled with so so many studies.


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Shelly’s iPad: Let's see here.


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Doug Lucas: Julie.


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Doug Lucas: here's one.


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Doug Lucas: Oh, this is all that great Kim. I've got your rams.


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Doug Lucas: Oh, and your dexa! Oh, perfect! All right, let me download those


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Doug Lucas: alright


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Shelly’s iPad: alright, so we'll start here, and then I'll find


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Shelly’s iPad: Alright.


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Doug Lucas:  Kim, all right. I'm going to share my screen on this. And, Kim, you give me authority to view your content


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Doug Lucas: in front of other people.


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Doug Lucas: Alright!


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Doug Lucas: Oh, and you can also see the Women's health initiative. There you go!


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Doug Lucas: Alright. So let me just orient everybody to those who aren't familiar with this type of study. So the Rems looks similar in some ways to a dexa. So actually, you know what? Let's start with Dexos.


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Doug Lucas: Everybody seen a dexa. So let's start with your dexa. So there's a lot of different dexa.


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Doug Lucas: lot of different dex of machines. Reports look different. They report on different things. In general. What you're gonna find is they're gonna talk about spine. And they're gonna talk about various versions of the hip. The measurement that we generally care about is the femoral neck, because the femoral neck is the thing that usually break. So they're not always. That's the most common fracture, and it's the fracture that has the most data on it as far as bad outcomes. So that's what we generally look. We'll look at when you look at a deck, so let me see what we got here. So


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Doug Lucas: you have your little report here. Here's the picture of your spine picture of your hips


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Doug Lucas: and your T-scores spine


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Doug Lucas: spine was actually a pretty good scan. They give you a lot of information. Sometimes they come back when they literally just like, here's your left hip. Here's your spine, that's all you get.


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Doug Lucas: Alright. So let's do this from the top down in a way that they probably intended. So what you look at here. And this is really important is the if you look at this graph on the left, let me blow this up so it's a little bit bigger.


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Doug Lucas: If you look at this graph on the left, it's a little bit confusing, but on the bottom axis you can see where it says age, and on the left side the vertical axis. You can see where it says, Bmd. you kind of have 2 vertical things. You have the Bmd. On this side, but then you also have the T score on the right side, usually the T. Scores on the left side, so this is a little bit different than normal.


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Doug Lucas: but where they drew these little black boxes they called them right and left. They're talking about your hips, so your right and left hips.


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Doug Lucas: and what they did in this image up here they sort of outlined the bony anatomy. So this is actually, I kind of like how they did this. So they tried to. You kind of outline your femoral head.


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Doug Lucas: The neck is probably this box here, or actually the neck, is probably this box here. I don't know if you can see my cursor or not. And then the trochanter is in this triangle out here. That's the other place where it commonly breaks, and then the total hip is probably the yellow


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Doug Lucas: outlines. This total thing. So that's kind of cool like that


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Doug Lucas: and then they put you on this graph. Now, what's important to notice about this graph is that the a black line in between the sort of diagonally sloping like a ski slope. Blue line. This is what would be considered a quote unquote, normal


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Doug Lucas: t-score as we age. So you can see that if you were 20, your T. Score should be up here, and that would be, you know, if you draw over somewhere around between 0 and one


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Doug Lucas: right? So this is


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Doug Lucas: average bone mineral density for a 20 year old of your ethnicity in gender, I think, is how they divide that out. And then over time there's expected bone loss. So you see, this black lines kind of slowly goes down, and then it really starts to pick up around menopause around 50. It starts to pick up, and then it continues to slope down. What's really important about this blue line? Both sides of it is that within what's one standard deviation. So statistical Bell Curve


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Doug Lucas: term. But one standard deviation captures most people within one standard deviation of this average.


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Most of us will lose bone and continue to lose bone even into the Osteoporosis range.


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Doug Lucas: So this is where, like I had a Instagram influencer message me, she just got a Dexa. She's I think she's 60, and she says I have osteopenia.


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Doug Lucas: and she's freaking out. But if you look at 60 and you go up here and you look at one, even one standard deviation below the normal, so still would be considered to be normal. Within normal range. If you draw this over, it's osteopenia. So osteopenia is between negative one and negative.


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Doug Lucas: I'm sorry. Negative one wrong negative, one and negative 2.5. That's right. So she has osteopenia. But that's actually normal.


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Doug Lucas: Now, is it optimal? No, we don't want that. But people freak out like they're at there an outlier, and that's not true. So anyway, Kim, you are sort of in this as kind of a funky, but you are below the statistical average, and you are probably around. I guess they said it here somewhere.


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Doug Lucas: So t score negative. 1, 7, negative, 1, 9 for your left and right right. So that is osteopenia, not osteoprocess, and we'll just keep going.


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Doug Lucas: So your spine.


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Doug Lucas: Okay, here, you want to look from a spine perspective. You want to look at all of the


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Doug Lucas: the one through 4 together. When you break down each individual vertebrae, you can get some weird numbers. So just look at the combined average there, and your T score is negative, 1, 3. So that puts you in that statistical one standard deviation below the average. So you actually are still quote, unquote, normal.


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Shelly’s iPad: That makes sense.


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Doug Lucas: That says the same thing.


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Doug Lucas: and then oh, they did a Tbs, so Tbs is what's called stands for a trabecular bone score. So trabecular bone score, I think. is not particularly valuable, and this is why. So, if you look at this, what does it say? It says your your Tbs is 1.2, and then usually they have like


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Doug Lucas: they'll have some kind of statement in here to say like, your bone quality is somewhat diminished or something like that, and it just doesn't really give me anything to go off of. I don't know what to do with that.


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Doug Lucas: I think I knew that it was somewhat diminished.


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So it it kinda looks cool, but it doesn't really help me.


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Doug Lucas: And then they give you all these numbers, which is fine.


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Doug Lucas: It's probably more data than you need. So alright. So the the outcome here for me is to say, Okay, well, you have osteopenia of your femoral neck and your spine. So let's compare that to Rems.


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Doug Lucas: Mary. right? So rams


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Doug Lucas: is gonna give you the same T score. So here's your not the same. It's gonna give you a T score. But then it's also gonna give you a fragility score. And that's really important. Alright, so we're gonna look at both of these things, the rems for those that aren't familiar with this. The Rems is an ultrasound study, and the rems is gonna give you both of those things. But it's also gonna do that without radiation. It should be more consistent from scan to scan, and it should show changes more frequently from scan to scan. If you're doing anything to improve or not improve your phones.


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Doug Lucas: So on this T score this is what a. A. T. Score and Bmd chart usually looks like. So usually there's green, yellow, red. So they were.


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Doug Lucas: they had all these other colors in there, which is confusing but negative, one and negative, 2.5 considered osteopenia less than negative. 2.5 osteoprocess. And again, here's that same black line. This was what was blue on the other one between here and here, and you get this gradual decline that steepens around the age of 50.


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Doug Lucas: So where you are, Kim is, you are smack, dab right at the the threshold of osteopenia, and you are smack dab in the middle of statistical average normal.


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Doug Lucas: That's cool, right? That's great.


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Doug Lucas: I would take that


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Doug Lucas:  And then, when we look at your bone quality, your bone quality would show that. Let me just explain this for a second. So fragility score


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Doug Lucas: the way that they describe how they get these data is they looked at


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Doug Lucas: I don't know how many thousands of scans, but thousands of scans, and related them to subsequent fracture over time and looked at the kind of what the ultrasound picks up as the quality of the bone, so they could start to develop a scoring metric around it after thousands and thousands of studies, and how they were related to fracture, they were able to start putting together different. You know details of the bone, and how it relates to fracture. So now they can with pretty good


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Doug Lucas: predictive power, they can measure your likelihood of fracture over the next. I think they'll have to look at it. Is it? 5 years, 10 years. 10 years.


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Doug Lucas: 5 year, 5 year! Texas says 10 years.


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Doug Lucas: And so when you look at this. I mean what I tell people is green, good yellow concerning red, bad. Right? So just break it down. Make it easy. But really anything sort of low twenties and teens is really good. So, to give you an example, like I had one done recently, I think my my fragility score was 19.5. So right below yours, Kim.


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Doug Lucas: Now, I also have osteopenia actually worse than you. So there's that but this is a good number. So I'd be really happy with this. So I don't think you really have a bone concern at all.


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Doug Lucas: Your bone quality there looks great.


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Doug Lucas: your t-score here. Negative one again, right on the threshold. Phone quality looks great


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Doug Lucas: spine. You're above statistical average, right? We never see green spines. So congratulations, Kim, you have green spines.


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Doug Lucas: Looks like you're growing mold.


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Shelly’s iPad: he


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Doug Lucas: and again, fragility score? Not quite as good, but still good and you can see then your your 5 year risk of major Osteo product fracture, which in this case what they're talking about spine is less than, and it says it looks like it says 5%. But if you look at this, it's actually 5% with a and not behind it. And the way that they describe this


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Doug Lucas: it's yeah, it's it's written out here. This is so confusing. I don't know why they do this, but it's the risk of Major Aristotle project fracture per 1,000 subjects. So it's not 5%. It's point 5%.


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Doug Lucas: Does that make sense?


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Doug Lucas: That's I don't. I wish they didn't do that. That's confusing. So this is 0 point 5%. And this is


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Doug Lucas: 0 point 1%. Does that make sense? So this looks fantastic? Kim.


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Shelly’s iPad: what questions do we have about that


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Shelly’s iPad: so? This is Shelley. No.


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Shelly’s iPad: So in this case both her tests were pretty similar.


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Shelly’s iPad: Cause I know we talk about I think a lot of us are asked to process already. So congratulations, Kim. I'm jealous, but but we tend to feel that our rooms might be a little better than the dexa.


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Shelly’s iPad: So in this case it shows their


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Shelly’s iPad: they're pretty equal. So I don't know if there's a reason. Is it because osteoporosis is a


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Shelly’s iPad: you know, they show more and ask your process when you do the test, both, or I'm not. I'm just curious about that. Yeah. So I've seen it go both ways. I saw one recently where the


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Doug Lucas: she was like mad at me for telling her to get her rams, but so she had. She. She came in because her I think her T score and her spine was like negative 3, 5. And in her hips she had osteopenia like negative, you know, like one whatever. 4, something like that, right? So she was like, oh, well, I just need to worry about my spine. My hips are fine, but whenever I see that discrepancy between spine and hips. I always sort of


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Doug Lucas: question that because osteoporosis, unless you're a nonambulatory or you have some


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Doug Lucas: you know, some kind of disability where you're not loading a body part.


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Doug Lucas: then it should be more even than that to see a big discrepancy between regions doesn't make sense, because osteoporosis is a systemic problem. It's not an isolated problem. Again, unless you're not loading part of your body. So if I see somebody that's, you know, negative 3, 5 and negative 1 5. I'm concerned that one of those probably isn't accurate, but we don't know which one.


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Doug Lucas: So then she gets her rems, and her rems was like negative. 3, 5, negative, 3, 3, and negative. And so now, all of a sudden, she's like, Oh, no! I actually have asked your process of my hips, too. And I'm and now I'm I'm scared, which is fine. So her bone quality was really good. She was one of those. If this fits anybody in here pay attention. So this was oh, it's me! It's me. I wasn't mad. So aranta. Yeah, it was you. You're right.


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Doug Lucas: You didn't look happy. I'll put it that way.


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Doug Lucas: So she so maybe you can tell us your feelings. But


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Doug Lucas: you know. But, Aranta, you are a a very lean. Now, I'm not telling people about you, but you are a lean woman with can I tell them how much you weigh? Can I tell them about you?


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Doug Lucas: I wasn't gonna put your name on it.


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Doug Lucas: I'll see what she says. Anyway, she had the body habitus that I would expect to see.


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Doug Lucas: There you are. Oh, Hi! Nice to see you.


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Doug Lucas: Yeah. So this is Aranja, everybody. Aranta weighs about 100 pounds. And how tall are you. Aracha? 5. Barely


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Doug Lucas: 5, 2, 5, 2. So 100 pounds 5, 2. So very, you know, lean small skeleton. And I see very frequently that bone marrow density is gonna be lower in that patient population. And yet her fragility score was really good, wasn't it? Raunchy was in the nineties.


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Doug Lucas: Yeah, so it's really good cause, I better than mine. Good and


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Doug Lucas: So what we talked about is to say, well, look, you know, yeah, your bone density is low. We'd love to increase it. It'll reduce your risk of fracture over time. But let's not lose sleep over this right like. Let's let's get it better. But let's know that you're doing fine.


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Doug Lucas: So in that case it looked worse, but I think it was still it was still good to see, and I think it probably hopefully made you feel better, even though it's worse than you thought but then I've also seen it go the other way, too, you know. So people that have really bad on, on, on, Dexo will look good on rems so vice versa, I think rems is likely more accurate, but we don't know, because there's no other way to know


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Shelly’s iPad: score. Cause Dexa does not correct.


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Shelly’s iPad: Correct. Right? So that's important. There, then


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Doug Lucas: we think we think we hope.


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Shelly’s iPad: Yeah, yeah, Lorna.


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Lorna Nichols: Well, I think you've answered my question. I just I had a discrepancy between the 2 scans and and the rooms was worse.


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Lorna Nichols: and you know that made me want to go, Bo. Go back to believe it in the text, you know, I'm like, Oh, well, maybe Texas really good after all. So I guess there's just no answer there on which one is more cause they were taken within like a just.


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Lorna Nichols: maybe 2 months at the most apart. Yeah.


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Doug Lucas: yeah, I think we have to just recognize that we're comparing apples to oranges. They're different modalities. They're different technologies. They're looking up on a different way. But there's no tie breaker, you know, like we can't do a biopsy to to verify. We can't, you know. It's just.


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Doug Lucas: I wish there was some way that we could. Well, I guess that's not true in theory. We could then do a quantitative Ct.


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Doug Lucas: But there hasn't been enough studies to look at all 3 of them to know how that they correlate. So I don't really know what we would do with that. And then you're just exposing yourself to radiation. So


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Doug Lucas: I think the answer is, if it looks bad, we just make it better cause. Ultimately, when we do this, when we're improving people's bone. We're improving their health span, anyway.


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Doug Lucas: So what's the downside?


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Doug Lucas: Yes, Helen. Hi, Helen!


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Helen: Hi, there


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Helen: I just was curious. Kim looks like she's about 12, but I wondered if she, if she could tell us her age, if you don't mind, cause I'm curious, are you, Menopausal?


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Helen: That's the other thing.


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So I am 57


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Kim Albertson: believe I'm in menopause. I don't have all my parts to know


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Helen: I've had my ovaries since, and that's been 33, so I will say I stopped having hot flashes about 4 years ago.


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Kim Albertson: And I've been sleeping a little better since then.


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Kim Albertson: But I will say like I. So this is, I had a Texas scan done 2 years ago, and that one said


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Kim Albertson: negative point 2 5 in my right hip and ostapenia in the other hip and spine so. and and I've had recent fractures in my feet, which is part of what has driven me into this, and it may not be anything related now to Oscar Process. But


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Kim Albertson: 2 met 2 different doctors saying, like, you've got to take medication, you're in dire straits.


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Kim Albertson: so II am relieved now. Thank you, Dr. Lucas, for being out there on Youtube and providing so much information. And both doctors. When I said, I, I'm gonna try and reverse this. Naturally, they're like, yeah, you can't.


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Kim Albertson: So II can't thank you enough because I my husband thinks I'm crazy. Now. Yeah, I'm gonna show him this video later, when it pops up


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Doug Lucas: saying they've had about husbands. Then. Well, that's a great story. And that's a great example of why repeating tests is also important, you know, and indexes do change and sometimes they change dramatically like, that's a big shift.


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Kim Albertson: right? To go from negative 2, 5 to negative. Essentially one, right? Like, that's a that's a big shift. And I mean, I was literally despondent, because up until this past year, like I was lifting weights 3, 4, 5 times a week. I was, you know, jumping in my exercises. And now I've stopped all of that, because


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Doug Lucas: yeah, for sure.


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Doug Lucas: Well, great! Well, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that. Let's see here. A couple of questions in here on the chat.


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Doug Lucas: Oh, yeah. So Kim was. You just put in the name of the doctor?


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Doug Lucas: the interesting. That's not who I was thinking of. There is an orthopedic surgeon. It was funny that the orthopedic surgeon, who is a hand surgeon who was in the practice that had that rooms to begin with, they must have sold it. And this doctor picked it up.


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She was really into osteoporosis, and then she left that practice, and they they like.


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Doug Lucas: I think they non-competed her out of it, which is


00:21:23.963 --> 00:21:24.983



00:21:25.573 --> 00:21:29.143

Doug Lucas:  What you put in here, Don, about research.


00:21:31.893 --> 00:21:35.342

Doug Lucas: are you? There, Don? That might be somewhere. Oh, there she is.


00:21:35.403 --> 00:21:43.002

Dawn Aragón, PhD: Hi, so yeah, in all of my exploration with Ostia Strong and the


00:21:43.943 --> 00:22:10.983

Dawn Aragón, PhD: you look more study. I thought Dr. Jake wish would think this would be a win win study if we got randomized trial. 3 groups get around before and after group. One does the the 3, you know, deadlift back, squat overhead press, and then a both who to do the jumping, and then the other group does osteostrong, plus the both to jumping. And then another group does walking in Yoga.


00:22:11.023 --> 00:22:13.353

Dawn Aragón, PhD: That's the study I want to see for one year.


00:22:13.663 --> 00:22:14.903

Shelly’s iPad: Yeah.


00:22:15.273 --> 00:22:23.482

Doug Lucas: that'd be fun. That'd be pretty big study from a study perspective. We would need anybody have a million dollars who's got a million dollars?


00:22:24.523 --> 00:22:25.283

Doug Lucas: No one


00:22:25.423 --> 00:22:42.632

Doug Lucas: in the wrong audience. I think of these studies all the time. So that's a that's a great segue. Then. Let me just answer a couple of these questions. I'll talk about why, that's a great segue. So, David, yeah, you were asking about Dex and people that have smaller bone frames. And and yeah, they say that it's accurate. I don't believe them.


00:22:43.253 --> 00:22:56.473

Doug Lucas:  Diane was asking about Frax. That's a great follow up question, too. So let's talk about Frax. So, Frax, who raise of physical hands, if your screen is on. Who wants to review Frax


00:22:58.233 --> 00:22:58.933

Shelly’s iPad: first.


00:22:59.183 --> 00:23:08.453

Doug Lucas: a few enough enough people. Okay, so let's review Frax. Let me pull it up here. So Frax, for those that aren't familiar with it. Some people might be like, what are you talking about?


00:23:10.853 --> 00:23:13.112

Doug Lucas: Frax is often


00:23:13.213 --> 00:23:23.303

Doug Lucas: assessed on decks a lot of times. They'll tell you what your Frax score is. But let me just walk you through an example. And actually, Kim, we can use you an example if you're okay with that.


00:23:23.943 --> 00:23:25.773

Doug Lucas: Hmm.


00:23:26.043 --> 00:23:26.812

here we go


00:23:27.313 --> 00:23:33.692

Doug Lucas: alright. So this is what Frax looks like. And if you just go, if you just Google, Frax, FRAX, you'll find it.


00:23:34.873 --> 00:23:47.762

Doug Lucas: and then you'd need to. Since we have an international audience, there is actually a way mine comes up automatically as being in the us, but it will change, based on what country you're in, just to make sure that you select the right country.


00:23:47.783 --> 00:23:50.252

Doug Lucas: I don't know how to do that somewhere in here.


00:23:50.363 --> 00:23:58.533

Doug Lucas: But anyway, you don't have to put your name in, and you just put in your age. So let's just do. Let's just do, Kim Kim, you're gonna have to tell us your weight, though, if you're okay with that.


00:23:58.653 --> 00:24:04.693

Doug Lucas: So age 57. Let's just give us a year cam what year are you born? I don't like to do math


00:24:10.433 --> 00:24:12.453

1966 got it.


00:24:13.503 --> 00:24:15.743

Doug Lucas: We can just make this up.


00:24:17.723 --> 00:24:19.022

Doug Lucas: You're female


00:24:20.363 --> 00:24:24.403

Doug Lucas: 176 pounds. How tall are you, Kim?


00:24:26.673 --> 00:24:28.152

Doug Lucas: Lift your paper up


00:24:29.873 --> 00:24:39.373

Doug Lucas: 68 inches great. So if you see what I'm doing over here, I'm putting them in the pounds to kilogram inches to centimeter conversion, and then it drops them into here.


00:24:39.433 --> 00:25:01.723

Doug Lucas: And then we can talk about so, Kim, when they say, Have you had a previous fracture your instinct would be to say, well, I had a foot fracture, so you say. Yes, but they actually mean fragility fracture. So they're talking about spine, hip, pelvis, upper arm, potentially wrist, depending on who you're talking about. So you technically have not had a previous fracture. According to this has your if you have a parental hip fracture.


00:25:02.513 --> 00:25:04.443

Doug Lucas: Nope, do you smoke


00:25:06.673 --> 00:25:09.983

Doug Lucas: not? Was that not a lot?


00:25:10.223 --> 00:25:24.322

Doug Lucas: No, we'll say no. Are you on chronic steroids for any reason, or have rheumatoid arthritis? No, and no great alright. And then the Bmd, so let's do it. Let's do an example of this. So in theory you're supposed to. Oh, let's just do t score.


00:25:24.373 --> 00:25:50.413

Doug Lucas: So let's do initially like you had a negative 2, 5, right? So that first one said you had a negative. 250, I forgot about these. Do you know, if you have secondary osteoprocess, most people don't know how to answer that. But unless you have a known reason for having osteoporosis, the answer should be no and then, if you drink more than 3 or more units of alcohol our day the answer should be, No, alright. So you put in your T score. You hit, calculate, and it kicks you out. This


00:25:50.413 --> 00:26:07.652

Doug Lucas: similar looking thing is what you saw in the rims. Right? So a risk of major osteoporotic fracture which is going to be spine again. Hip pelvis, upper arm potentially wrist of 4.3%. And this is per 10 years. This is different data. This is actually percent per 10 years. Hip fracture is 0


00:26:07.653 --> 00:26:23.533

Doug Lucas: and that's actually it's interesting that at negative 2, 5, your hip fracture risk is 0 and it's because all your secondary risk factors all look good and are protective. So that's great. So then let's adjust this. So now we say, T score of negative one, leave everything else the same.


00:26:24.013 --> 00:26:29.422

Doug Lucas: and we calculate that, and you see 1 one be weird.


00:26:30.333 --> 00:26:32.703

Doug Lucas: negative one. Did I do that backwards? Hold on!


00:26:33.493 --> 00:26:38.453

Doug Lucas: Oh, wait! Hold on! Hold on! Hold on! Negative. 2.5. Doctor. There we go.


00:26:38.983 --> 00:26:44.072

Doug Lucas: Okay, that makes more sense. Sorry everybody erase what you just saw for the last 60 s.


00:26:44.483 --> 00:26:45.293

Doug Lucas: Bye.


00:26:45.983 --> 00:27:05.103

Doug Lucas: So if I put the negative in front of T score, like I'm supposed to. Then major Osteo product fracture would be 11% in the next 10 years, and then hip fractures 2% in the next 10 years. That makes more sense alright. And then we change that to negative one, which is what you just got. And let's look particularly at this 11.


00:27:05.483 --> 00:27:07.413

Doug Lucas: And now it goes down to


00:27:07.873 --> 00:27:19.783

Doug Lucas: 6.6. So it kind of drops in half, and that 2 drops to 0 point 3 almost 0. Right? That's it. Such a huge shift in your fracture risk, so apparently. Don't forget to put that negative. That's a big deal.


00:27:20.063 --> 00:27:25.223

Doug Lucas: Does that make sense any questions on Frax Diane? Is that a question about frax or anything?


00:27:26.173 --> 00:27:27.513

Diane’s iPad: Hi,


00:27:27.603 --> 00:27:46.383

Diane’s iPad: The reason I inquire about fax is because I'm I'm in an area where there's no osteo strong. There's no RAM. There's no proper bone mark to mark or testing, so I'm relying on you, and it's been. It's been great. So but you know, of course, I get a bone density, and I get a frax.


00:27:46.663 --> 00:27:52.572

Diane’s iPad: and I don't. Actually, I think I'm 62, and I have a negative, 3.7 in my spine


00:27:52.753 --> 00:27:56.562

Diane’s iPad: and a negative 2.7 or 9 in my hip.


00:27:56.693 --> 00:28:21.793

Diane’s iPad: But I have a whole bunch of no's there. So I mean, I'm I'm really, and I'm one of those persons who's done all the weightlifting and stuff. But I'm also small, boned all those kinds of things, but regardless. So this fax is something that gets stuck in front of my face every time I go to a specialist. And you know, it's like you have no choice. You've got to do the drugs like you're gonna what's you know? I basically had the last fellow tell me


00:28:21.823 --> 00:28:32.462

Diane’s iPad: cause I told him I was on hormones. I was told what I was doing. I told my got my gut. I was getting my gut under control, and he looked at me and said, Would you rather. he said, Dude something to the effect of


00:28:32.563 --> 00:28:36.122

Diane’s iPad: you're you're risking breast cancer, for.


00:28:36.163 --> 00:28:39.643

Diane’s iPad: you know, doing the hormones at my age with


00:28:39.803 --> 00:28:43.192

Diane’s iPad: so so because he wanted me on a drug?


00:28:43.383 --> 00:28:45.532

Doug Lucas: Yeah, so I am.


00:28:46.003 --> 00:29:02.932

Diane’s iPad: Should I be putting much weight. I intend to eventually drive as far as necessary for rem, wherever it is I can find one. I can't find one in Washington. I'm in British Columbia. So II keep trying to find a rems. I can go out of Province, and I may do that. But


00:29:03.473 --> 00:29:08.083

Diane’s iPad: should I be putting any weight in the fract, because they definitely tell me.


00:29:08.283 --> 00:29:17.772

Diane’s iPad: with the 14 for a 10 for osteop, Major osteoporotic break, and 5.3 for a hip, and I get


00:29:17.943 --> 00:29:42.872

Doug Lucas: a lot of pressure, and I'm should I be putting much weight in it when I can't get other? It's a well studied tool. So the database that went into creating frax is is massive. So I think it's a it's a reliable tool. But you have to understand that it's using Dexa as one of its major determining factors. So really, you know how different is it than Dexa. It just looks at the data in a different way.


00:29:42.873 --> 00:29:58.202

Doug Lucas: You know, I would give you probably similar statistics, just knowing what your T. Scores are, but that's not the whole picture, and and what Frax doesn't take into account, or the other things so like fragility score that you could get on rems. So I think it would be worth it for you to find a way to get to one.


00:29:58.983 --> 00:30:07.632

Doug Lucas: would just help you to feel so much better about your decision-making. But even if let's say you couldn't get to one, or it's just not not meaningful. How long has it been


00:30:07.663 --> 00:30:10.493

Doug Lucas: since you've gone on this journey to improve your bone? Health


00:30:13.643 --> 00:30:15.043

Diane’s iPad: a year.


00:30:15.893 --> 00:30:22.653

Doug Lucas: And have you repeated? Have you been able to repeat a dexa in that timeframe?


00:30:22.873 --> 00:30:24.932

Diane’s iPad: I only get a


00:30:24.983 --> 00:30:26.343

Diane’s iPad: a private one.


00:30:26.463 --> 00:30:36.993

Diane’s iPad: I went in June of last year, and I'm I'll I'll do one in mid march again. Because so and actually, yes, I had an improvement


00:30:37.183 --> 00:30:43.313

Diane’s iPad: point 4 in the spine and point 2 in the hip, I think.


00:30:44.043 --> 00:31:06.872

Diane’s iPad: yeah, no, I actually. And I with it. When I went to that specialist that actually saw me after that said that that is the the within the room of error, error. So all they were willing to say is that it had stopped getting worse. And that's it's true, right? It is within it's it's within the margin of error.


00:31:07.203 --> 00:31:09.102

Doug Lucas: But if they both went up


00:31:09.593 --> 00:31:19.603

Doug Lucas: and I mean, that's promising right. And remember, too, that as a post menopausal woman, not losing one to 2% per year is also a win.


00:31:20.303 --> 00:31:24.133

Doug Lucas: Right? So if you actually had if you didn't, if you if you were neutral.


00:31:24.143 --> 00:31:44.193

Doug Lucas: And this is what most studies will do right? So most studies on osteoporosis, whether it be supplement drug or whatever they're gonna look at at the expected loss versus what the intervention did, and oftentimes, when the intervention was neutral, did nothing to the T score it still clinically and and statistically significant because the expected losses.


00:31:44.243 --> 00:31:50.852

Doug Lucas: one to 2% per year. So if you didn't lose, and you actually went up, even if it's within that margin that's still a win.


00:31:51.123 --> 00:31:55.572

Doug Lucas: So I would just OP, I would. Just, I just optimize what you're doing.


00:31:55.723 --> 00:32:00.443

Doug Lucas: And if you're continuing to improve. Then just tell your doctor, hey? Look! I'm getting better.


00:32:00.683 --> 00:32:29.812

Diane’s iPad: Stop pressuring me. And and that was June. So I've really optimized since being able to hook into all of this right? I mean, I was kind of on the right track by watching your videos. But I've got more involved with you. And again. II echo Kim like Thank you so much. I mean, I trip, I tribute. Yes, I have to put in the effort, but I attribute my my gains, and when I intend to be more gains to you, and and I don't know where any of us would be with Wi. Wh. Without


00:32:30.523 --> 00:32:38.542

Diane’s iPad: your expertise and support, and something like this is huge. I have one antidotal thing that I'm curious to know what you would say. So


00:32:38.723 --> 00:33:06.633

Diane’s iPad: within this time I was moderate, and then went to severe in a year, and within that time I had 2 falls because I wasn't paying any attention to moderate. I was busy with other things, and I had a fall when I where I was like cross country skiing, and I was kind of on a really icy thing, and I went down hard, and I went right down on my on my wrist, down into a hole, and I really for 2 months afterwards my thumb was still all messed up, but I didn't break my wrist.


00:33:06.743 --> 00:33:09.593

Diane’s iPad: and then in the summer I


00:33:10.013 --> 00:33:21.762

Diane’s iPad: took a fall off my bike like kind of small catapult. Not little. But I did plan. I bruised, but I didn't break anything, and I bruised my upper thigh, but I didn't break up. Anything


00:33:22.433 --> 00:33:26.293

Diane’s iPad: like is that? That is that a helpful thing like.


00:33:26.713 --> 00:33:29.242

Doug Lucas: yeah. And again, it's like


00:33:29.493 --> 00:33:32.773

Doug Lucas: fractures are funny, you know, practicing as an orthopedic surgeon.


00:33:33.293 --> 00:33:39.253

Doug Lucas: I see very what seems like very minimal impact, causing fractures of people that have seemingly good bound.


00:33:39.713 --> 00:33:54.822

Doug Lucas: But then I've seen major traumas, I mean, people do all kinds of stupid stuff, and they come in with no fracture. And it's just amazing, right? So bones are really funny. Where if you load them in the right way, they can take a tremendous amount of force, and if you load them the wrong way.


00:33:54.833 --> 00:34:10.513

Doug Lucas: fractures so easily. So it's hard to say what that really means. But it's good, right? So you don't have now a fractured tailbone wrist, and whatever else you know so and thank you for saying that it really means a lot. Actually, I appreciate that.


00:34:10.873 --> 00:34:11.903

Doug Lucas: Of course.


00:34:13.183 --> 00:34:14.123

Doug Lucas: Helen.


00:34:14.503 --> 00:34:20.333

Helen: yeah, I just wondered with Diane. So you went from a negative 4.1


00:34:20.363 --> 00:34:27.032

Helen: down to a negative 3.7 with your spine. Is that the negative?


00:34:27.163 --> 00:34:31.352

Diane’s iPad: Negative? 3.9 to negative


00:34:32.473 --> 00:34:34.053

Diane’s iPad: 3 point


00:34:34.513 --> 00:34:38.533

Helen: 5 Am. I spine? Oh, really cool


00:34:38.653 --> 00:34:44.003

Diane’s iPad: in a, in a in a 6 month span, and I wasn't as amped up on all the


00:34:44.313 --> 00:34:55.263

Diane’s iPad: different things that I could be doing. I was still working my protein out. I wasn't on hormone replacement therapy yet. Those kinds of things, and I went down a little bit in my hip.


00:34:55.323 --> 00:34:59.092

Helen: But my spine is the worst. What exercises were you doing?


00:34:59.263 --> 00:35:06.522

Diane’s iPad: Oh, II was doing the lift more without the jumping, although.


00:35:06.613 --> 00:35:10.843

Diane’s iPad:  I the last


00:35:10.853 --> 00:35:29.302

Diane’s iPad: one of these. Dr. Doug said, to get back on the jumping. So I'm I'm I'm moving myself back in that direction. But I do the I do the deadlifes, the squats. I can't put the squat bar behind my neck. That's because I can't load my spine like that, so I hold it in front of me and the overhead press.


00:35:29.383 --> 00:35:47.623

Diane’s iPad: I have no like. I say, there's no way I'm getting near, and Austria strong it that stuff is out of. I'd have to totally relocate, and that's not gonna happen. I kinda like it over here. So. But having said that, I and and to say that, too, that's in on exactly the same Dex scan


00:35:47.643 --> 00:35:50.942

Doug Lucas: that I'd had the one that showed


00:35:51.213 --> 00:35:57.562

Diane’s iPad: the negative 3.9 the exact same machine, and then go obviously the exact same place.


00:35:57.633 --> 00:36:18.142

Diane’s iPad: and the person who gave me that scan. We did it because he saw that my positioning was slightly different from the first time I'd had it so I feel like he did everything he could to to, you know, to give it the quality scan for sure. So yeah. And and Diane. So say again she went from 3, 9 to 3, 4. Is that right?


00:36:18.303 --> 00:36:20.473

Diane’s iPad: I'm pretty positive I'd have to.


00:36:20.913 --> 00:36:25.812

Doug Lucas: I don't know why those numbers aren't imprinted in my head.


00:36:26.003 --> 00:36:31.093

Diane’s iPad: Yeah. Negative. 3, 9 to negative 3 to negative 3, 4 in this fine


00:36:31.713 --> 00:36:50.393

Doug Lucas: so or statistician. But when I do simple math on that. I think it's more than the it's outside of the margin of error, of improvement. To make sure I'm doing that right. But that looks like much more than one to 2% improvement.


00:36:50.663 --> 00:37:01.683

Diane’s iPad: This was a metabolic bone disease specialist specializing in osteoporosis. And I mean, he didn't even want to talk about got health or anything. Right it was, and I got it.


00:37:01.693 --> 00:37:07.283

Diane’s iPad: They were fearful. They were like I needed to be on an affinity, and I needed to be subsidized. And all this stuff.


00:37:08.233 --> 00:37:09.173

Doug Lucas: I think. Remember.


00:37:09.713 --> 00:37:15.183

Helen: thanks for saying telling me you're very inspiring to me, cause I have a similar


00:37:15.233 --> 00:37:17.562

Helen: school. Thanks a lot.


00:37:17.803 --> 00:37:20.433

Doug Lucas: Yeah, we can do it


00:37:20.553 --> 00:37:21.483

Diane’s iPad: for sure


00:37:22.053 --> 00:37:23.293

Doug Lucas: it can be done.


00:37:23.333 --> 00:37:28.702

Helen: Helen, did you have another question? No, I'm good, thank you.


00:37:28.753 --> 00:37:33.303

Doug Lucas: So let me then make a shift because I wanted to hit on supplement some today.


00:37:33.553 --> 00:37:36.992

Doug Lucas: So I've been. I don't know if I've talked about this in this


00:37:37.003 --> 00:37:44.813

Doug Lucas: a platform, but I've been talking with. The people at Alga Cal. Over the last couple of months. Have I talked about this at all?


00:37:45.253 --> 00:37:46.083

Diane’s iPad: Yes.


00:37:46.193 --> 00:38:04.063

Doug Lucas: okay. So I don't remember what I've said, in what? In what context. But I this all started when I did a talk for Osteo strong and we kind of did a series of talks, and the last one that I did was on supplements. Osteo, Strong and Alja have a a partnership. So they had somebody from Al jakol on the on the call.


00:38:04.313 --> 00:38:13.863

Doug Lucas: and it was a little awkward, because I literally have videos where I say, don't take algae. So it was uncomfortable.


00:38:13.963 --> 00:38:25.083

Doug Lucas: And so I chatted with the representative from Aljacal afterwards, and I and I just said, Look, this was my interpretation of the studies, and this these are my concerns, and she said I'd get that. Would you sit down and talk to our CEO?


00:38:25.243 --> 00:38:40.472

Doug Lucas: And I was like, sure no problem. So II sat down. I chatted with the his name's Dean Newell's really nice guy. I chatted with Dean and and I just told him straight out. I said, I you know. II feel like there's there's things in your studies that are inconsistent. I can't make


00:38:41.463 --> 00:38:56.132

Doug Lucas: sense of them, so I can't support using the products. And there are studies supporting, using Mchc. And oh, HD calcium and the benefit for bone. And he said, Huh! Let me look into that. And so he sent me this, follow up. He must have done nothing but research for like 3 days.


00:38:56.133 --> 00:39:16.543

Doug Lucas: Send me this really long follow up and explanation. And so we kinda got into this conversation around different forms of calcium, whole food versus supplements. Why they chose to go the route of Algae. And then, when I went through the studies with him. II probably the first person who's ever pointed this out, but I pointed out to him that in one of the studies the the


00:39:16.633 --> 00:39:22.463

Doug Lucas: graphs don't make sense. They actually don't align with what they say the the participants did.


00:39:22.583 --> 00:39:25.503

Doug Lucas: I pointed that out to them, and he was like, oh, my gosh!


00:39:25.513 --> 00:39:36.863

Doug Lucas: I forgot! I don't know if you actually forgot. But he said I forgot there was an error in the publication, and the journal wouldn't let themish, and wouldn't let them like write an article, or the editor, or anything.


00:39:37.093 --> 00:39:42.952

Doug Lucas: And so so it kind of went. sort of just flew under the radar. And


00:39:42.983 --> 00:40:00.493

Doug Lucas: but when you corrected the the study with what he told me was the way that it was actually done, and actually does make sense. So I'm happy to pull that up and show that to you. But the reason why this is important is you're gonna hear a video come out probably next week where I'm gonna change my recommendations on what calcium to use.


00:40:00.753 --> 00:40:05.292

Doug Lucas: And I want to explain it because I think it's really relevant.


00:40:05.833 --> 00:40:06.763

Shelly’s iPad: So


00:40:08.063 --> 00:40:10.833

Doug Lucas:  this one.


00:40:12.333 --> 00:40:15.432

Doug Lucas: So this study I'm gonna show you. I'll share my screen in a sec.


00:40:17.563 --> 00:40:19.793

Doug Lucas: A.


00:40:20.823 --> 00:40:23.653

Doug Lucas: I don't know that I'll be able to get to the actual study from here. Let's see.


00:40:26.733 --> 00:40:35.002

Doug Lucas: I don't wanna buy this study. This is annoying. Actually, this is one of the reasons why I didn't support it. In the first place. Don't put studies behind paywalls drives me nuts.


00:40:36.093 --> 00:40:37.423

Doug Lucas: I can pull it up, though


00:40:39.043 --> 00:40:41.303

Doug Lucas: I've got Dean in slack.


00:40:45.803 --> 00:40:49.122

Doug Lucas: Give me just a second. This will. It'll be worth your weight, I promise.


00:40:53.023 --> 00:40:54.572

Doug Lucas: Nope, it's not. In fact.


00:40:57.353 --> 00:40:58.633

Doug Lucas: the


00:41:00.103 --> 00:41:02.063

Doug Lucas: summary is.


00:41:02.963 --> 00:41:05.033

I do. I like using


00:41:05.113 --> 00:41:15.412

Doug Lucas: alga, Cal. I'm sorry I like using calcium from a whole food source. So whether that be Mchc. Or Algine. And the reason why I was concerned about


00:41:15.433 --> 00:41:23.122

Doug Lucas: Algae, in the first place. was that there are some reports about


00:41:23.843 --> 00:41:36.593

Doug Lucas: how, where they're harvested from, and what is the  What's the toxicity like? And so he also gave me some feedback on that, and how they monitor for that.


00:41:36.883 --> 00:41:38.822

Doug Lucas: They do a really good job of that.


00:41:38.863 --> 00:41:44.972

Doug Lucas: And then the flip side of that is when we're talking about Mchc. Or Ohc when it's coming from


00:41:45.303 --> 00:41:49.263

Doug Lucas: cows. We don't know what those cows are exposed to.


00:41:49.303 --> 00:41:57.322

Doug Lucas: So then we're also trusting we're saying, Hey, you know, may maybe these cows aren't exposed to anything bad, but we don't know.


00:41:57.763 --> 00:42:01.573

Doug Lucas: and so here we go. I got it.


00:42:02.593 --> 00:42:06.483

Doug Lucas: So we're kind of we're at the whim of of something.


00:42:06.643 --> 00:42:13.733

Doug Lucas: So then the other thing I did, too, is I went back and looked at the research that led me go to go down the pathway of Mchc. To begin with.


00:42:14.153 --> 00:42:23.253

Doug Lucas: And so I went back and looked at that. And the studies are all on this product, called Ohc, which stands for osi and hydroxyapite complex. which is basically ground up bones


00:42:23.723 --> 00:42:39.953

Doug Lucas: prepared in a way that it preserves some of the growth factors and proteins that are in the bones. And then they studied that, and there was a statistically significant improvement compared to the expected rate of loss, which, again, isn't much right. You can just do nothing, and it's better than the expected rate of loss.


00:42:40.003 --> 00:42:45.092

Doug Lucas: But the problem is that product is not available in the Us. It is available in Europe.


00:42:45.103 --> 00:42:48.343

Doug Lucas: Anybody here from in Europe. I don't know what time it is. And


00:42:48.583 --> 00:42:52.972

Doug Lucas: oh, Helen, where? Where are you, Helen Agarol Agarwal.


00:42:53.923 --> 00:42:56.703

Helen Agarwal: I'm in the Uk.


00:42:56.923 --> 00:43:09.413

Doug Lucas: In the evening. Yeah, order to 6 in the evening. Do you know, if you have, if there's a product there called Osteopan, I could look up some other names, but it's a ground up bone product. I don't know if it's available in the okay or not


00:43:09.923 --> 00:43:13.893

Helen Agarwal: never come across it. Yeah. So anyway.


00:43:13.943 --> 00:43:34.043

Doug Lucas: what I did is looked at the products that are available in the Us. There's one called stimucal, which is in an Mch kind of sounds like it's prepared in the same way. But again, we're making a leap to say that this is the same thing because we don't actually notice the same thing. The stimucal studies are basically bench studies. They look at what happens to cells in a petri dish. But there are no long term human studies.


00:43:34.163 --> 00:43:42.652

Doug Lucas: So then it made me think, well, hey? If these algae cow studies are actually legit, then maybe let's take a second look. I'm gonna share my screen. I'm gonna show this to you.


00:43:43.393 --> 00:43:48.642

Doug Lucas: So this, this is their second study. I'll make it bigger.


00:43:49.853 --> 00:44:02.313

Doug Lucas: So here's what here's what I think I'm again like the first person that ever figured this out. So here's what they say that they studied. This is a a 3 part study. So there are 3 interventions. Plan one, plan 2, and plan 3


00:44:02.523 --> 00:44:16.412

Doug Lucas: different amounts of calcium from algae and then different additives. So for example, different amounts of vitamin. D. One has mk, 2 is mk. 4. One has it as mk, 7,


00:44:16.483 --> 00:44:23.322

Doug Lucas: 2 of them have strontium, one of them doesn't, and then vitamin, C. Boron, etc. 2 of the groups used


00:44:23.403 --> 00:44:49.372

Doug Lucas: activity, stuff and nutrition information. Alright. So plan one had the most stuff plan 2. I'm sorry. Plan. One had the middle amount of stuff plan 2 had the most, and Plan 3 had the least right. Alright. So you go to the results. Load. Okay. So plan one had. Again, it was actually improvement, which is more than any other calcium can say that had improvement. Plan 2 had more, but then plan 3, which had the least amount of things, had the most amount of improvement.


00:44:49.603 --> 00:44:52.093

Doug Lucas: And I was like, I can't. That doesn't make sense to me.


00:44:52.413 --> 00:44:57.543

Doug Lucas: But here's what actually happened is that plan


00:44:59.143 --> 00:45:06.833

Doug Lucas: 3, which is calcium. Essentially the algae alone, plus a thousand I use of D,


00:45:06.883 --> 00:45:10.092

Doug Lucas: and that's it is actually plant one


00:45:10.233 --> 00:45:12.563

Doug Lucas: plan, one is plan 2, plan 2 is plan 3


00:45:13.323 --> 00:45:14.363

Doug Lucas: whoops.


00:45:15.633 --> 00:45:22.573

Doug Lucas: I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to pay for this study and then realize the publication was botched. But anyway, when you do that.


00:45:22.583 --> 00:45:26.672

Doug Lucas: you say? Okay? Well, plan one. Which was the algae-cal alone.


00:45:26.923 --> 00:45:39.082

Doug Lucas: Plan 2, was the aljacal, some lifestyle strontium and a little bit more stuff. And then plan 3 had boron k. 2, as MK. 7. Lifestyle, aljacal more d.


00:45:39.173 --> 00:45:40.773

Doug Lucas: Now this all makes sense.


00:45:41.833 --> 00:45:47.632

Doug Lucas: And then, if you compare this to any other bone health product, it really does stand out as the winner.


00:45:48.743 --> 00:45:58.602

Doug Lucas: So when I learned that I was like, Oh, well. maybe we should stand behind the company that actually put millions of dollars into research. And in building a product


00:45:58.633 --> 00:46:01.302

Doug Lucas: that actually does make sense. Yeah, Lorna.


00:46:03.943 --> 00:46:12.343

Lorna Nichols: it just seems to me, though, that strontium was the whole cause of the good results. Yeah. So I thought that, too.


00:46:13.053 --> 00:46:15.972

Doug Lucas: I love this population. You guys are so smart.


00:46:16.213 --> 00:46:21.422

So you're absolutely right, Lorna, that would make sense right. And, in fact, if you go to their first study.


00:46:23.063 --> 00:46:27.223

Doug Lucas: which compares 2 versions of algacal, both have strontium in it.


00:46:27.243 --> 00:46:28.812

Doug Lucas: But in this one.


00:46:30.693 --> 00:46:33.422

Doug Lucas: In this plan there is no strontium.


00:46:35.093 --> 00:46:47.982

Doug Lucas: so this is the only study that they have that shows that the the product by itself will improve vulnerable density. Otherwise, I was going to say, basically, what you're showing is that strong team approves BMD, which we already knew.


00:46:48.403 --> 00:46:50.443

Doug Lucas: But this is without strong team


00:46:52.373 --> 00:46:53.433

Doug Lucas: that make sense.


00:46:54.433 --> 00:46:59.992

Lorna Nichols: II thought, see, it's confusing that the mistake that they made.


00:47:00.373 --> 00:47:05.283

Shelly’s iPad: you know, because I thought Plan 3 was really plan one in the chart.


00:47:07.853 --> 00:47:08.593

Doug Lucas: right?


00:47:09.643 --> 00:47:13.922

Doug Lucas: So this is the one without strontium, without lifestyle. So this is the algebra alone.


00:47:15.553 --> 00:47:17.022

Doug Lucas: So if that's the key.


00:47:17.433 --> 00:47:29.932

Doug Lucas: yeah. So then this has strontium in it. So plan 2 has strontium, and it plant 3. Has strontium in it. Plan 3. Also had boron more magnesium, mk, 7 more vitamin d


00:47:30.243 --> 00:47:33.393

Doug Lucas: right? So that all makes sense. This is what I would kind of expect to see.


00:47:33.923 --> 00:47:36.963

Doug Lucas: That's actually that's a lot. But still it makes sense.


00:47:37.063 --> 00:47:40.763

Lorna Nichols: So there was Strong Tim, and Plan 3


00:47:40.813 --> 00:47:46.233

Doug Lucas: and plan 3. Yes, so again, go back here, and if you just move all these around, I wish I could like cut and paste.


00:47:46.283 --> 00:47:55.142

Doug Lucas: But if you move these around and you move what is listed as plan 3. To plan one. Plan, one to plan 2, and plan 2 to plan 3. So you do you do this?


00:47:57.433 --> 00:47:58.843

Doug Lucas: Then it all makes sense.


00:47:59.243 --> 00:48:15.912

Lorna Nichols: Okay, so do we. I mean, just regardless of all that. Can can you say that you feel like strong team? Isn't the deciding factor in all this in that one? I think we can say that now I did when I talked to Dean about this, the CEO I was like, Dean.


00:48:16.113 --> 00:48:21.762

Doug Lucas: this is a big problem like this is a big -oh


00:48:22.083 --> 00:48:30.843

Doug Lucas: And I said, you need, you guys need to do another study, and you need to show that that algebra by itself will consistently improve bomber density because there's some other


00:48:30.893 --> 00:48:34.992

Doug Lucas: errors in the study that I point out, not errors, but just poor quality.


00:48:35.083 --> 00:48:42.373

Doug Lucas: So he agreed that he would do it. I told him I'd design it. You're not gonna see it for 3 years, but I think it's coming.


00:48:42.493 --> 00:48:58.482

Doug Lucas: but I think that it is the only product that alone, without strontium has shown an improvement in Bmd. It's coming from a reliable source. We can access it. It's over the counter, from a company that really seems like they have their heart in the right place, even if their messaging feels a little aggressive. But I'm not a marketer.


00:48:59.283 --> 00:49:07.023

Lorna Nichols: so does that mean that, you know. I know they sell it both ways with and without strontium. Do you recommend the one without?


00:49:07.453 --> 00:49:11.633

Doug Lucas: Yeah. So here's what we're doing for our patients. you ready for the scoop.


00:49:11.833 --> 00:49:15.843

Shelly’s iPad: So here's what we're doing for our patients.


00:49:16.523 --> 00:49:22.193

Doug Lucas: almost everybody. It's still it's not. Everybody needs it. And so again, if you track your food


00:49:22.343 --> 00:49:30.183

Doug Lucas: and you. You're getting 1,200 milligrams of calcium through food. You don't need a calcium product. I would still take a multi mineral. But you don't need a calcium product.


00:49:30.723 --> 00:49:41.693

Doug Lucas: What they're selling the most of is this this Bum builder pack, which is algebra plus strontium. And the less you just what really wanna focus on Bmd. I don't think we need strontium.


00:49:41.903 --> 00:49:50.333

Doug Lucas: There's no evidence to say that strontium by itself is going to improve bone strength. It will improve bone density. That study shows that all their studies show that.


00:49:50.583 --> 00:49:53.702

Doug Lucas: That's why they have a money back guarantee.


00:49:53.713 --> 00:50:05.713

Doug Lucas: because it will improve bone density. But and and and we'll just take a step back when I use that would be in somebody who says, Well, look, my bone! Mortality is really low. It really scares me


00:50:06.153 --> 00:50:16.573

Doug Lucas: almost from a mental perspective, to allow them to do more, to lift, more, to train more. I would actually like to see their Bnb come up, even if it has nothing to do with their bone strength, because I know it's ultimately gonna help them.


00:50:16.773 --> 00:50:19.283

Doug Lucas: So I almost use it from that perspective alone.


00:50:19.523 --> 00:50:27.203

Doug Lucas: And then what we're recommending is algecal plus, because it is a good source of


00:50:27.613 --> 00:50:38.622

Doug Lucas: multi minerals. So you get the calcium. You get a little bit of Mag, they add more mag oxide, which that's the only potential downside is that it can cause diarrhea. Insensitive people.


00:50:38.683 --> 00:50:48.683

Doug Lucas: You get. Excuse me. you get a little bit of d. 3, not a lot. 1,600 IU, which is not too much.


00:50:48.703 --> 00:50:55.093

Doug Lucas: 100 micrograms of K. 2 is mk. 7, 3 milligrams of Boron, which is great sort of a


00:50:55.203 --> 00:50:57.072

mattering of vitamin c


00:50:57.103 --> 00:51:02.653

Doug Lucas: and then other trace minerals, which again, we're recommending for anybody, whether they're on calcium or not.


00:51:02.683 --> 00:51:08.093

Shelly’s iPad: And then we used to have people on. You've probably seen the video where I talk about protect plus.


00:51:09.653 --> 00:51:17.062

Doug Lucas: we're switching people from protect plus to this product. So this is their complete. It is only available from their website


00:51:17.213 --> 00:51:20.703

Doug Lucas: not on full script, which is why you want to see it on our list.


00:51:20.923 --> 00:51:27.363

Doug Lucas: but it adds another 1,000 iu of D. So it gets you to that 2,600 range. I'll talk about that in a minute. Why, I like that.


00:51:27.372 --> 00:51:41.972

Doug Lucas: but it gets you a nice dose of vitamin, a in the active form, in the retinal palmitate form. It gets you a spectrum of vitamin E, so you get to output to Cougherall, but also gamma to cougher all a mixed tocotrianols. So that's nice.


00:51:41.983 --> 00:51:55.793

Doug Lucas: You get vitamin K. Out K. 1,000 micrograms, and then K. 2, both as MK. 4 and MK. 7. So you're really hitting all of the fat, soluble vitamins in not too much D, and that's the problem that we've seen with


00:51:56.423 --> 00:51:59.923

Doug Lucas: with the Protect plus is that we're driving d up too high.


00:52:03.393 --> 00:52:04.503

Doug Lucas: Does that make sense.


00:52:04.553 --> 00:52:27.783

Shelly’s iPad: Those are the 2 that you recommended for me back in January that I'm yeah. I hope these are the ones but the one that the plus, I believe, is the one that has the calcium. But I monitor my food with the chronometer and calcium is pretty darn good, so I only take one of the calcum ones.


00:52:27.943 --> 00:52:39.752

Doug Lucas: So in that case, so the thing is. And this we run into this problem all the time. So I would still recommend, like a multi mineral to to give you all the other trace minerals cause I think that


00:52:39.873 --> 00:52:47.143

Doug Lucas: the if you don't need the calcium, it'd be good to have one or the other cause we're mostly deficient cause. Our food supply is deficient. It's just hard to get


00:52:47.363 --> 00:52:53.943

Doug Lucas: so there's a there are several different options out there. Lots of trace mineral options, and most of them are similar.


00:52:54.173 --> 00:52:54.943

Shelly’s iPad: Okay.


00:52:55.203 --> 00:52:55.973

Doug Lucas: yeah.


00:52:56.363 --> 00:53:01.072

Doug Lucas: I might only take one pill. I might only take the one pill for the calcium one.


00:53:01.233 --> 00:53:07.483

Doug Lucas: Right? Yeah. So. And and I think the dosing to get all of the other stuff in there. It's 2 twice a day, right?


00:53:07.603 --> 00:53:09.403

Shelly’s iPad: No, I thought it was just too daily.


00:53:09.453 --> 00:53:13.493

Doug Lucas: Is it 2 daily? I'll check it again. You might be right. Oh, I got I got. I got it right here.


00:53:14.103 --> 00:53:15.623

Doug Lucas: I don't take it. I don't know.


00:53:15.993 --> 00:53:16.993

Doug Lucas: I can tell you.


00:53:18.183 --> 00:53:19.303

Doug Lucas: It's


00:53:21.813 --> 00:53:28.033

Shelly’s iPad: 2 capsules twice a day. Yeah. So you're taking 4. Okay? So I'm only taking a quarter. Okay, I'll go. I'll fix that then. Alright.


00:53:28.333 --> 00:53:29.562

Shelly’s iPad: Yeah, thank you.


00:53:29.733 --> 00:53:30.703

Doug Lucas: Yeah, Lorna.


00:53:32.863 --> 00:53:38.582

Lorna Nichols: Oh, I left my hand up. But but could you


00:53:39.313 --> 00:53:40.552

Lorna Nichols: could you


00:53:40.903 --> 00:53:53.482

Doug Lucas: quickly? If not, that's fine, recommend a multimineral? I'm so afraid of getting something we have. We have a really long list of those, and I don't. I don't know what trying to


00:53:54.043 --> 00:53:57.053

Doug Lucas:  Let me see if I can find


00:53:59.223 --> 00:54:07.813

Doug Lucas: cause we have. There's like, I don't know we have, like 10 on our list, and we have different reasons for doing different ones. But let me just search.


00:54:08.163 --> 00:54:11.282

Lorna Nichols: I'm taking Boron and silicon.


00:54:12.023 --> 00:54:16.213

Lorna Nichols: you know I'm not really focusing on any of the others.


00:54:16.403 --> 00:54:28.253

Doug Lucas: Here we go. Yep, this is so we kind of came up. This is the one I'll put it in the the chat. So Claire labs with a K. Don't auto correct me, please. Clara labs trace minerals.


00:54:28.653 --> 00:54:31.272

Doug Lucas: It's just a nice combo oops


00:54:32.013 --> 00:54:34.262

Doug Lucas: to everyone, not to Arantia


00:54:36.073 --> 00:54:37.992

Doug Lucas: using group chat. There we go.


00:54:38.533 --> 00:54:49.903

Doug Lucas:  yeah. And so it has. Now this one has iodine in it, so that might not work for some people. There is a version without iodine, too.


00:54:50.153 --> 00:54:53.623

Doug Lucas: but it gives you the selenium a little bit of copper.


00:54:54.023 --> 00:55:01.903

Doug Lucas: The chromium molybdenum. It's got not enough, boron. So you need to add more boron silica vanadium


00:55:03.703 --> 00:55:05.223

Doug Lucas: all the little things.


00:55:05.623 --> 00:55:27.643

Doug Lucas: Right? So that's that part of the supplements. And then I think next time let's hit supplements. More cause I wanna dig into some of the other details. Other things that people are taking, because there's so much confusion here, and there's a million products. And so we have a list. We have a long list, you know, for those of you that have gone through it. You know Shelley's gone through it. Lorna's waiting so so patiently


00:55:28.003 --> 00:55:37.673

Doug Lucas: to go through it but we end up with a long list, you know. And it could be like 20 things. And so you need to figure out, okay, like, what are the what are the heaviest hitters? Because nobody can take that many things forever.


00:55:37.743 --> 00:55:41.513

Doug Lucas: So we got to figure out what the biggest, most important things are, and then go from there.


00:55:43.513 --> 00:55:44.363

Doug Lucas: Okay?


00:55:45.623 --> 00:55:49.263

Doug Lucas: Oh, yeah, Don, great question. So


00:55:50.603 --> 00:56:04.063

Doug Lucas: Oh, Susan, I meant we have an internal list of supplements. the so being don mentioned beam so beam. I did a a talk about beam. I forget what it's called on Youtube.


00:56:04.263 --> 00:56:07.083

Doug Lucas: But it's being minerals is


00:56:07.153 --> 00:56:12.353

Doug Lucas: a product called folvic and humic acid. And they're basically they are.


00:56:12.383 --> 00:56:23.602

Doug Lucas: It is a multi mineral. It's a really confusing scientific topic, but it's sort of like I consider it like an intracellular or multi mineral. I've been using it since I did that interview.


00:56:23.723 --> 00:56:38.232

Doug Lucas: I think it's a way to improve cellular function. It's also a way to detox, cause. It binds things that are intracellular and pulls them out. I think it's a really cool product, you know. Will it actually increase your mineral levels in theory?


00:56:38.323 --> 00:57:02.213

Doug Lucas: But there's not enough data to say that you could use that instead of an actual multimenar. So generally, we're gonna add that for people that are having a hard time absorbing things. If we do like say an Htma or heritage mineral analysis, and it looks terrible then we could add that to help them to get things into the cells but to do that instead, I don't. I don't know that we have enough data to say we can do that instead. But I like adding it to my water for sure.


00:57:03.143 --> 00:57:13.753

Doug Lucas: Alright guys. Yes. So next week I'm in California, so we'll have our first guest, and it's gonna be Ashley extraordinaire.


00:57:13.763 --> 00:57:31.723

Doug Lucas: and that is, yep, she's already listed on there. So Ashley is one of our Rds and nutritionist. She's amazing. She's gonna talk about Cgm. And the value of understanding what a continuous, glucose monitor can do for you. She worked for the company nutr sense for a long time. And so she brings that information to us.


00:57:31.723 --> 00:57:46.513

Doug Lucas: We do Cgm's on not a huge percentage of our population, but a fair number who have some kind of metabolic dysfunction on labs and are trying to figure out how restrictive on carbs they need to be. It's a really cool topic. So tune in for that one and then I'll be back the following week.


00:57:48.033 --> 00:57:54.783

Doug Lucas: No, Don, I haven't. Alright guys. I gotta run. Take care, bye.